Vigier Guitars

Hello all, I am new to the forum - and to Vigier guitars - and am thinking about buying an Excalibur fretless guitar. I found one (a red Supra with peal white pickguard - very nice) in my local shop in Poole, Dorset and have tried it twice so far. I really like it, but I think that something is wrong with this particular guitar: the top 3 strings do not ring at all when played along the fingerboard, there is no sustain whatsoever. From looking at the various demos & people's personal videos I don't believe that this is how it should be. The sales assistant has been very helpful and has done all he can to set up the guitar properly, but the problem still persists. He contacted the UK distributor who, I believe, reads this forum, too and he seems to think that this is normal.Could someone confirm this? The easiest thing would be for me to try another one and compare, but they are not easy to find around here.A little bit about myself: I am an player with over 30yrs experience and have been active in experimental music over the last 20 yrs. I would love to aquire a Vigier fretless guitar, but I don't believe this one is set up right. I know it's very difficult to say anything without seeing and playing the instrument, but nevertheless, I would be grateful about any comments people may have.The guitar' sserial number is: 040392Many thanks in advance!Best wishes,Udo.

Hi Udo,While writing this I'm sitting here with my fretless so I can compare.I've had my fretless for nearly two years now and I'm still getting my head round has AWESOME it is. What I've learnt is that there are certain areas that don't have much sustain, the same places as where a fretted guitar would have them but slightly more so, there are ways to work round this. Are you playing the guitar through an amp when in the shop? I find that the guitar responds better when plugged into a good amp, I also have experimented with flat wounds and a higher gauge of strings, these all helped, but in the end I've gone back to D'addario 10's as they work best for me. Also, there is a science in the playing, if you hit a note smack on it, it has more sustain, this due to the harmonic frequencies bla bla bla. Ron Thal is worth checking out, he's a master with the fretlless. Another guy worthy mentioning is Tim Donahue, he's got a great touch.My advice, plug it in to a good amp and gigging sound level and hopefully a lot of your fears will banished!Here's a video with me playing the fretless, when you get the sweet spot is does ring out, there's some examples of me hitting and not hitting them! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx5sioL1CzEIf you're ever in Canterbury, Kent you could happily try mine.Thanks and good luck! You'll never look back if you get one, superb instruments!

Hi Dudley,Thanks for taking the time to reply with so much detail, I'm grateful for your message. I really want to fall in love with the instrument, but at the moment - at least with this particular one - I can't because I don't believe it's right. Watching your video also confirms this. The notes you are playing on the top 3 strings all have some sort of 'ring' to it. None of them are sounding short and 'damped', which is what is happening with this guitar I'm trying, all over the fingerboard. There is not a single spot that is better of worse, it's just dead and damped sounding on the 3 top strings. I'm wondering if even the nut may have something to do with it, as the top 3 strings don't ring very much when played open, either. I did play through an amp. The bottom 3 strings are fine and I'm getting on well playing them up and down the fingerboard. Now the shop have made another adjustment - put on thicker gauge strings - and I shall try it again, but my feeling is that it will not help sufficiently. I also use a different tuning, referred to as NST (New Standard Tuning -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Standard_Tuning) for which I prefer to use the gauges 09 11 16 30 42 52, but I guess I could experiment with a heavier top.I will try it again with the heavier strings and report back. Thanks so much for your generous offer to let me try your guitar, Dudley - I might take you up on it in the future!     If you are interested in my musical activities, here are two examples:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icP7bkptXGIhttp://www.myspace.com/zaumsoundAgain many thanks for your time and I'd love to hear from other Vigier fretless players.

No worries!Really enjoyed 'City of Rome'!I wish I could my hands on that fretless and check it out.

Hello again,I went to the shop to try the guitar again yesterday, after the friendly sales assistant had put heavier gauge top strings on. It now has the following gauges from top to bottom: 12 16 24 30 42 52, so the bottom is still the same as my preference for the NST. Now the 3rd string (normally 'g', but 'a' in NST) is ringing much better. The top 2 however, are still quite dead. I've tried different playing styles, for example short, stabby funky chords on the top 2 strings sound good - as long as I press the strings down really really hard to get any sound out of them at all.. Singing, sustained single-note or chord playing, whether clean or distorted, on the other hand is only possible on the bottom 4 stings. The top 2 strings are now, using the heavier strings, very difficult to get any note out of. The pressure needed to sound a note on them is so much more than the bottom 4 strings, it just feels wrong.My aim is not to criticise the instrument, I'm trying to find out how it is supposed to behave and perform. The shop admits that they are not experts on Vigier fretless guitars, so that leaves me kinda stuck, since what I need is really some advise from someone who knows these instruments well. There may be a possibility that some Surfretter guitars are better than others in this respect, in which case it would be worth me looking to try some others. Might have to travel to France!   If only I had the time, I'd love to! My sense about the top 2 strings is that the relationship between their tension when tuned up and the thickness (gauge) partly governs how much the strings will 'ring out', i.e, the thicker the string the better it will ring. But the higher the note that the string is tuned to, the harder it is to press it down onto the fingerboard, which doesn't help with the sustain. So while I can appreciate that this is the case, I still have no guidance as to how much of this 'damping' or 'non-ringing' effect should be expected as 'normal' or 'acceptable'. I wonder if something could be done in the setup of the guitar, which the shop is not capable of due to lack of expert knowledge. If anyone has any pointers or ideas on how to proceed I would be grateful to hear them. As is stands, although I do like the guitar, I don't feel happy to part with so much money without being sure about how the instrument is meant to perform.Many thanks for 'listening' to my concerns, I'm grateful for any replies.Happy weekend!Udo.

I will make my answer short If the guitar do not ring, it is probably because the setup has been messed-up.Make sure the strings are close to the fingerboard, about 1mm for the high E string at the 12th fret and 1,5 for the low E string.For maximum sustain, we suggest to tune the guitar in D, but you can tune it in E if you prefer.Yes higher gauge are better, we install 11/52 originally. You do not feel the gauge thickness because you do not have to bend the stings and also because the strings are so close to the fingerboard that it is effort less to play.

Many thanks for your reply, Patrice. What you say is really helpful. I will speak with the shop again and suggest they have another go at setting up the guitar. Perhaps sending the guitar back to you or to a Vigier specialist in the UK for setup would be the best option?Again, many thanks and happy weekend!