Which amp should I get? H&K, Mesa, Engl? Opinions wanted!

Let's talk about the amps, effects, etc… that you use with your Vigier, tell us how you get your sound.
guitari9
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16 Jun 2009 13:03

Hi all

I am looking to buy my ultimate 100watt head. Its pretty hard to decide as its near impossible to find stores which have a good selection of amps here in London. What I want is a versatile head that can do great cleans to cruch to high gain.

The options are:
1) Hughes & kettner trilogy
2) Engl Powerball
3) VHT deliverence
4) Mesa Stiletto Deuce (a bit above my budget)
5) Mesa dual rectifier (bit above budget too)
6) Engl Screamer (great sounding but only 50w)

any comments would be greately appreciated! Keep in mind that I would be using my Vigier so great lead tones are imperitive!!

Cheers




fretwired
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17 Jun 2009 12:10

Here's my 2 cents - I've owned Engl Screamer, Engl Powerball, Mesa Stiletto, Mesa Triple Rectifier, Budda Superdrive and currently using a Bogner Ecstasy.I have to say that for flexibility and some great tones, the Engl Screamer (the cheapest option here) is a great amp, especially if you get the Z-5 footswitch, which'll give you access to a bunch of switching options, including channels, modes, and solo boost. The clean is good, crunch excellent, and the high gain sound is defined - cuts better than the Powerball. It gets a big thumbs up from me. The Powerball is a cool rock and roll amp, I used the clean channel in crunch mode pretty much exclusively and just switched between the master volumes A and B for rhythm and solos. The Hi gain channels were too noisy, a little OTT for my tastes and did not really cut it live no matter how much you boosted the mids. You can hear the Powerball on all of the clips I did with my covers band - http://www.evolutionrocks.co.uk/html/audio.htmlAnother amp that's well worth checking out is the Marshall JVM - it gets a little noisy at higher gain levels, but it's really flexibile and has loads of tones to offer.Go check some out - but make sure you try a Screamer - you might be surprised.Jon
guitari9
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17 Jun 2009 12:34

Thanks for the response and your views, greatly appreciated. The Screamer is probably the most beautiful amp I have played myself...if they made a 100 watt one, then thats what I would buy! Never tried the stiletto, what do you think of it? Another option is to buy one great head now and maybe in the future buy another to cover other sounds.options for those are:1. Engl Screamer + Dual Rectifier 2. Stiletto + Fireball/6505There is also a Soldano Avenger for sale...any thoughts? I loved the sounds of the H&K Triamp II but its out of my budget, but was told that the Trilogy produces the same sounds but is a bit more stripped down.This is really tough...am losing sleep over this
fretwired
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17 Jun 2009 17:12

LOL! I kow how you feel - when I think about buying gear I lose sleep too!Anyway - here's what I found - I find both the Mesa Rectifier and Stiletto quite brittle sounding - no doubt they are great amps, but they didn't have enough mids for me - I prefer a sound with more low mids - works better for me in the band I'm in (classic rock through to hard rock - not really metal). The Rectifier sound seems to sound great on stage - but not so full out front - but like I say, that's probably as i was not using it for full-tilt metal.H&K I haven't tried - but I always hear good things about the Triamp and the Duotone.The Screamer head is loud - couped with a good 2x12 cab you'll have plenty of gigging volume. Fireball is also a killer amp, in fact I'm looking at getting one of the new ones to give a more 'modern' sound to my Bogner. The Engl Invader EL34 100W is also a great amp - that is really flexible. Or for more straight up tones - try the Engl Blackmore. I don't want to sound like an Engl advert, but I do think they make some great amps - the sound is a little more hi-fi than a Marshall, but they cram them full of truly useful tones and features.No experience with Soldano's I'm afraid, so I can't comment.I guess it comes down to what you are looking for - here's what I find useful in an amp -1. At least 2 crunch modes2. Switchable master volumes is great for solos with different sounds3. Strong clean tone that will work great with pedals4. Sensible footswitch that's easy to use live5. Parallel (or blendable) FX loopYou should also check out the Cornford Roadhouse and MK100.
guitari9
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17 Jun 2009 18:55

Thanks for your detailed response. The Screamer I think is grossly overlooked by most people though it has the most beautiful tones below brutal hi-gain. I liked the Powerball for its gain and super cleans, but think it lacked the 3 dimensionality in the crunch-mid gain settings (maybe I needed some more time to check it out). If the Blackmore head is voiced anything like the Screamer, its what I want! What about the Steve Morse head? I think it makes more sense to buy Engl in the UK rather than Mesa as the prices of Mesas are 25-30% higher than what you would pay in the US. Mesa seems to have become the industry standard because of their popularity in the US. I unfortunately don't have experiece with testing these amps out anywhere, let alone pushing them at higher volumes! In terms of tone, I am looking for a warm hot-rodded Marshall sound that will not only do Van-Halen-esque hi-gain leads but go lower down the gain-chain to something like a Shawn Lane sound and finally down to a nice Strat Clean. Warmth and thickness in tone is what I am looking forI am sure most of these amps will be great but finding the elusive one is tough. Also looking for opinions on the VHT Deliverence as well. I would'nt mind 2 heads as well to cover the whole spectrum if necessary, as I am looking at a budget of around 2k in total!Many many thanks again and any more opinions will be greatly appreciated.
fretwired
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17 Jun 2009 21:10

World Guitars near Stroud has a lot of Boogies (and Vigiers!) - it's a bit of a trek for me but a great store to visit. Elsewhere, PMT Birmingham had Engl's and Mesa's in stock (and lots of them) last time I was in there.From your description of tones (Brown sound + dark low mids of Shawn Lane's tone) and your budget - check out - 1.Screamer Head - that will leave you plenty of spare cash for a new guitar too! :)2. Invader 100 - EL34 - it's got everything you need and then some.3. Bogner Ecstasy - it's not cheap but it nails the classic Marshall hot rod brown sound but with lower mids - tons of options, 3 channels - love itI think you'll find the Powerball a little too aggressive, ditto the Mesa's.If you're as insane as I am, I recommend making a list of what you want from an amp, then checking it off against the options. To be honest though - all the amps you're looking at are of a high standard, all with strengths; I dig Boogies' reliability, Engl's variety, Bogner's refined, dark Marshall-y tone. As they say - the harder a decision is, the less important the outcome - all the options are very good!
fretwired
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17 Jun 2009 21:13

Oh - VHT (now Fryette) are great too. I've played the Sig X and it blew me away - lots of tones again - but hard as * when you crank it.It's a great choice if you need to switch between clean, crunch and lead at a gig - as is the Invader, as is the Bogner... oh god, now I want a new amps...arrrggggghhhh
guitari9
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18 Jun 2009 07:19

The Bogner and Invader look really good in the videos and get really good reviews....but the price!!!!I am also exited about the Cornford Roadhouse 50w 212 combo! I didnt know that Cornford made a cheaper range....it sounds amazing too!Well, what I have decided is to compare for the moment are Engl, Cornford and Mesa. Engl and Cornford are great value for money and there are enough Mesas knocking around on ebay in good condition.What if I look at these combinations for now:1) Mesa Stiletto II and Engl Fireball/Blackmore2) Mesa Rectifier and Cornford Roadhouse comboLooks like I might have all the tones covered?
fretwired
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18 Jun 2009 08:08

Yup, the Ecstasy and Invader aren't cheap - but worth every penny! Also - they'll do what you think you need two amps for! Other option could be a Boogie Roadster - that's a four channel multi-mode monster too and will definitely cover the tones you need - second-hand ones go for about ?1700.If you're playing live a lot, as opposed to in the studio, I would recommend getting a single amp, it cuts out a lot of hassle (amp switching, cab switching etc.) and a lot of weight!
guitari9
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18 Jun 2009 09:46

Well the reason I dont mind 2 amps is because in a band situation I play Prog Rock/metal whereas on my own I play blues and jazz fusion and therefore require the more toneful end of the amps. I thought about what you said earlier about me wanting a brown higain sound and probably the amp I am looking for is a better version of a 5150/6505 with a nice crunch channel.For the lower end of the gain line I want something that does fender and some nice Marshall JCM800 type warm tones...thats why I was looking at the Stiletto Deuce and Cornford Roadhouse.The reason i am exited about the Stiletto is because there is one in good nick on ebay now for an affordable price. I could do that and then a 5150/6505?What were your thoughts about the Stiletto stage 2? Sorry if I am sounding confused but its tough when you can't play any of these amps and compare in real life!The Mesa Roadking is great but havent seen one secondhand for a while and imagine they are pretty rare.Ok updated choices:1) Stiletto+ 65052) Stiletto+ Fireball3) Stiletto+ Blackmore4) Cornford Roadhouse + 65055) Cornford Roadhouse + Blackmore6) Cornford Roadhouse + Powerball/Fireball7) Cornford Roadhouse + Dual Rectifier8) Engl Invader9) Engl Steve Morse10) VHT Deliverence (heard it does everything)11) Cornford Roadhouse + Soldano Avenger Cabs will be 2X12 Mesas or Engl
fretwired
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18 Jun 2009 10:00

I like the idea of a Cornford Roadhouse for blues and fusion, then a Powerball for your modern rock/prog sounds, or a Blackmore if you need less options. The Stiletto just didn't float my boat - couldn't really put my finger on it - but it was the least musical of the amps on your list IMO.An Invader would do pretty much everything you want though.The Deliverance is a more 'old school' amp - to get the most out of it, you need to work your guitar volume knob to go from clean to crunch - or crunch to lead for example - but it is a monster. I liked the Sig-X as the switching options would've made it easier for me onstage.
guitari9
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18 Jun 2009 10:36

Did you have the Stiletto Stage 1 or 2? Have heard that there is a big difference in voicing between the 2. Overall people say that the Stiletto is very tough to tweak but is great when you have the right settings down. However I guess if I have to buy 1 Mesa then it should rather be the Rectifier Series than the Stiletto as it seems that the Rectifiers are more distinctive for what it does compared to the Stiletto which is more of an updated/better Marshall.I think that the Cornford Roadhouse+Powerball is the best combination and best value for money considering they arent shipped all the way from the states. You are right about the Avenger being a serious single channel, single sound amp...but its got that amazing SLO circuit and only about ?1300 new!
fretwired
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18 Jun 2009 11:09

I tried both models of the Stiletto, for me, they lacked the musicality and soul I was looking for, but to answer your question, the Stage II voicings are definitely more pleasing, not as bright and harsh. Rectifiers have a very characteristic sound - personally, I need more mids now than they can offer.Fancy another one to look at? Check out the Splawn range - for hot rodded Marshally/Soldano tones they absolutely rule - from ?1500 ish - Sounds Great Music in Manchester. I think you would love the Compeition or the Pro Mod for your JCM800 hot rod tone.
guitari9
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18 Jun 2009 11:29

Hi, its funny many people say that about the Stiletto even though its got 5star reviews from all the guitar magazines. I did speak to Soundsgreat yesterday about a Splawn but it was ?1800 or so for a Nitro. I feel the Roadhouse can do a (differently voiced) Marshally hot rod sound with a few pedals. I also feel that the powerball will cover the ground that the Roadhouse doesnt....great combination I think...all ground covered!The price between the roadhouse 50w head and 50w 212 is negligible so I get a lot for my money as well, plus the luxury of having 50w rather than 100 for home/studio use! Might even consider the 30w 112 which is cheaper.Its great to get some views from a former Mesa/Engl owner like you, as most people have only owned one of the 2 and can be pretty biased in their views. It also confirms my view that Mesas and Engls are great but Engls are overshadowed by the popularity of Mesas in the US.Thanks again!!! 
fretwired
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18 Jun 2009 11:48

Cool! Let it rock...
guitari9
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21 Jun 2009 16:50

Tried a couple of amps out yesterday: Engl Morse, Engl Screamer, Mesa Stiletto, Mesa Dual Rectifier.The Stiletto was a great amp, very 3dimensional and has some really beautiful tones. However on the high gain settings I had to cut both the Treble and Presence to 0 and yet could not get enough warmth out of it...too much treble with a top layer of fuzz. Don't know whether having a Tubescreamer in front of the amp can give it some more body.The Engl Morse is probably the scariest amp i have seen...definitely the most impressive looking ever. Plug in and it straight away has some decent tones. However, I could not get enough 3 dimensionality out of it and couldn't find a particular voice in the distortions...maybe a bit solidstate sounding. The cleans were good, but lacked that shine and sparkle. However, it is quite a complex amp with loads of different knobs controlling different Mid sweeps, etc so its probably unfair for me to make a judgement in only 30 mins of playing. Also it might be different when its cranked higher. Overall, its probably very very versatile but I couldn't find the wow factor in the time I spent with it.....however Steve Morse gets some great tones, so I m probably missing a few tricks.The Mesa Dual Rectifier is a fun amp...plug in and can get some nice full riffing sounds....however, it still lacks tone in the mids in my opinion...tried all the settings...bold/spongy/vintage/raw, etc etc and found it pretty versatile and usable overall..cleans not great but not unusable. Again, its probably unfair to judge in 10-15 mins of playing.The Engl Screamer! Wow! The nicest cleans ever and the nicest, tightest crunch and high-gains! However, it is very trebley and bright, though not in the same way as the Stiletto, which is piercing. However, the brightness of the Screamer does scare me a bit and i suppose it might not be difficult to handle later on.Overall, I had great expectations of the Engl Morse. I probably didn't do it justice, but I found the same issues with the Powerball when I tried it last week...nice tones, but not enough 3dimensionality...as I said, maybe I need some more times with the amps. However, from clips I have heard of the Powerball/Fireball, the definately sound more impressive in Metal/Thrash situations than the Rectifiers in my opinion.Now left to try:1) Peavey6505 (combined with another amp for lower gain) 2) Cornford Roadhouse (for the lower gain stuff)3) Soldanos (don't know where to find them)4) Bogner Shiva5) VHT Deliverence6) Engl BlackmoreAny more opinions very very welcome!
fretwired
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21 Jun 2009 21:38

Ok, from what you're saying, I think you're looking for a more open, boutique, 3d sound. You're right, the Engls et al, are more hi-fi - flatter sounding - great for metal, but lack the sag and character in low to mid gain tones. The Engl Morse is very versatilem but yes, a little lacklustre - but as wth any decent tube amp, it breathes a lot more when you crank the master volume. Anyways - The Bogner Shiva is an astounding amp, but from what you're I still think you should seriously consider an Ecstasy, I love mine more and more every gig I do.
guitari9
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23 Jun 2009 20:38

Think you hit the nail on the head. I am looking for a more Hi-fi, 3d, brown, mid-highgain, darker/more driven Marshall sound with the ability to clean up amazingly as well as a very warm crunch channel...phew! I am now seriously looking at the Bogners as well. The Ecstasy is a bit over budget unless I want to stick with one amp head rather than two. The Shiva is lovely..there are a few clips on youtube...amazing. Have been trying to check out the VHT Deliverence/Pitbull as they seem contenders as well. Might even consider the Cornford Mk50 as it seems to be the new rage among british amps. Am temped to explore the Fender Twin+JCM800+5150 route as well as they seem like landmarks within the tonal palette I am searching for. The Stiletto is not yet out of contention. After playing it myself and finding it too piercing, many owners say that it really shines with some EQ tweaking and pedals...still don't know what to make of it.I never thought finding an amp would be so tough. Having never owned a hi-quality tube amps because of space/transport problems, I expected that I could buy any amp and expect it to deliver. But now that I am in the process of buying one, I just cant find the tones that I expected to hear.
fretwired
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24 Jun 2009 08:48

The Ecstasy has a Twin-inspired clean channel - it get's a some flak from some - but it's pretty much on the money, with the excursion and pre-amp mode choices you can get all kinds of tones. You've also got the legendary Blue channel - which is just beautifully detailed dark crunch, and the Red Channel - more saturation for leads. There's also Plexi-mode which you can assign to either gain channel for a vintage Marshall tone.  You've got two assignable excursion and presence controls, pre-EQ shaping on each channel - tons of options. The Shiva is much more straight ahead - without all the options and fuss, it's a beautiful amp.If you're anywhere near Northampton - give me a shout and you're welcome to give the Ecstasy a twang - albeit at a modest volume! Check out a couple of the Vigiers I have for sale at the same time! 
guitari9
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25 Jun 2009 12:25

Thanks for the offer, would love to come and try the Ecstasy, if I am in your area. It sounds like a great amp from what you describe...but ?2500+ price plus the cab...a bit over budget unless I get one used for 1500-1700 for which I can get a new Shiva. Have been reading up a bit on the Engl Blackmore too, and people say its very versatile and a bit more natural sounding compared to the more refined/processed metal sounds from the Powerballs and Fireballs. Also trying to get to a store which stocks Soldanos, as the Hot Rods seem interesting even though they are pretty limited tonally.Some amazing clips from the Cornford Roadhouse... cant believe one amp can do all that withough pedals:http://forum.racksrock.com/viewtopic.php?t=848&sid=03ffe53cea0fa1b7cfa0c8ded430d364
fretwired
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25 Jun 2009 12:30

Have you checked out some Ecstasy clips at the Bogner site - here's a cool one - it's a good example of it's dark, Marshall-y character - http://www.bogneramplification.com/customshop/Angus101B.mp3J
guitari9
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27 Jun 2009 00:52

Those Bogner clips are amazing! Its great for Bogner to post sound clips like that on their websites...wish the rest of the manufacturers did the same. But 2500GBP+ for the Ecstacy! Too much for me!Hey, what about the Carvin Legacy version 2? From the reviews I gather that its really good and in the league of the Shiva and certainly better than the Legacy v1....thoughts?
guitari9
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14 Jul 2009 19:33

I have narrowed down the list finally! What I have gathered is that I seem to lean towards the sounds of Cornford and Soldano. Though different, they both have very musical and defined lead tones, so should have either in my *! My budget has been maxed to about 2600-2700GBP.Here goes:1) Bogner Shiva EL34 + Soldano Avenger 502) Cornford Roadhouse 30 (used) + Mesa Boogie Roadster3) Bogner Ecstasy + Cornford Roadhouse 30 (used)4) Cornford MK50 + Soldano Avenger 50 (unfortunately similarish tonal spectrum and both 50W)5) Mesa Booogie Roadster only6) Bogner Ecstasy onlyAny thoughts? Let me know what you would do!
HKmatt
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06 Jan 2010 06:27

Axe FX Ultra covers all bases and then some... :-)
Ben
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06 Jan 2010 09:58

I have gone through so many amps and set-ups....Marshall, Engl, Laney, Mesa Boogie, Bogner...Plus have access to a studio full of different amps. As I travel to see many music shops I also get to try various amps as I demo Vigier guitars. Last week I finally decided to bite the bullet and get a Bogner Ecstasy 101B - I did own the Ecstasy Classic some time ago, but for me the 101B is better in terms of sound - (I got a great deal on a 'as new' second hand 101B head) - I have never been so happy, it has the perfect sound, 3ch - easy to set up and a lot of variation, smooth rich sounds - works in perfect harmony with all my different guitars. Now I do not have to keep going through amps (I was using two different heads to get the mix of tones to play live and it was a lot to set-up and transport etc), now I have one amp I can rely on for my tone - though I do love my Marshall Slash head and will not get rid of that, for everything else I am having a Spring clear-out!  
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