Hi all, I have a Shawn Lane Excalibur and I love the way it plays. But it has always sounded a bit thin to me when compared to other guitars. I have ran it through my Fender Twin as well as a few other amps and still a bit to thin on the clean settings. You can go back and listen to some of Lane's playing with it and it sounds a bit thin there as well. So what I'm wondering is does this have to do with the pickups that he chose or the way a guitar like this is designed? I asume it is the pickups though since they are low output. So what I am looking for is a pickup that will give the guitar a bigger sound. By bigger I mean a big rounded soun without adding fiz haha. The tone im after would be like the Shawn Lane tones from Powers of ten. I hate fizzy tones lol. So should I go with something with a higher output? I asume his earlier guitars had higher output pickups than the Vigier? I have always heard higher output pickups add fiz to the tone but I really don't know. So what do you guys think? Thanks.
CShawn Lane Vigier sounds thin? Pickup change?
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marcwormjim
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I forget if the stock pot values are 1meg or 500k on that model, but I'd sugest trying switching out one or both pots for 250s before you change the pups.
More powerful pickups won't automatically give you a thicker tone.
DiMarzio Air Classics are definitely not the thinnest pickups either. According to the DiMarzio tone chart they are pretty even across the tone spectra. But there are thicker pickups out there, for DiMarzio, Tone Zone, Air Zone and Breed comes to mind.
But i would try to change the pots first, they are indeed 1M. 250 or 500 K will tame brightness but you will lose other things, like bite.
I think the Shawn Lane model is naturally bright and cutting. I like those characteristics a lot. I've also thought of changing pickups, but not to tame brightness, I'd just like some more power. But i do think Air Classics are pretty decent for being so low output though.
I believe i have the answer for you,....The craftmanship on the vigier is second to none,..but the electronics are quite a different story, I own a shawn lane model as well, and was sadly disapointed by the sound, thin and no body is what it sounded like to me,...after pickup swapout after pickup swapout i started to suspect something else,...the pots! why anyone in their right mind would put 1meg pots in this guitar i have no idea, Alder body (think fender strat) and pickups (dimarzio air classics) that sound closer to single coils than anything else. well after i swapped out the 1meg pots for 500k and threw in a set of Suhr pickups (ssh+ ssv) WOOOOOOOWWWWW!!!!!!! perfection, i also threw in a treble bleed and different capacitors .47 i believe, Night and day,...Patrice vigier is doing a disservice to his guitars in my opinion with his choice of electronics, they all deserve 500k pots and custom wound pickups (suhr, bareknucles...etc) hope this helped,...because it sure helped me,.......
Yeah, 500k pots will remove some treble.
I didn't find the Air Classics lack body/bass though? I thought they were pretty well balanced for the guitar, but since I like to play "rockier" stuff than what Shawn Lane did I do find them too weak for my taste. The guitar is on the brighter side of course but not in an extreme way? Palm muting chunky riffing is massive with the right settings.
I've got a pair of Bareknuckles I'll be soldering in this weekend. Alnico Nailbomb for the bridge and a Cold Sweat neck.
Very excited to hear the result. I might change the pots to 500k ones eventually, but i kind of like the openness of the 1Mb's. As long as the guitar doesn't sound shrill all is good.
awsome pickup choice by the way,.bareknuckle pickups are amazing, i went with suhr because of the versatility, in regards to the shawn lane model being bright to me the more i considered every detail the clearer it became, the stainless steel frets also factor into the bright tone as well, if you went with relatively dark pickups i dont see 1meg pots being that much of a problem (dimarzio breed's..etc) but the 1meg with the air classics were killin me, and everyone else in the room (one gentleman at a jam i go to thought i was playing a telecaster....lol) in addition to cutting some of the trble frequencies 500k pots will let more of the midrange shine through, the ssh+ was night and day with the different pots, the great midrange those pickups have were lost with the 1meg pots, as a fact shawn lane DID NOT USE air classics in his vigier's nor 1meg pots in the vigier's that patrice made for him as prototypes, they they were equiped with dimarzio paf pro's and 500k pots,....I tried this combination and loved it, but i had a problem with the way the paf pro's split,.....very weak, the suhr's are AMAZING in that way split the sound like a real strat and the middle position in a telecaster if i ever heard one,...I often wonderd why shawn lane picked the air classic's, i have heard what patrice said about it, but it would of been more logical to go with what he originaly used (paf pro, 500k) in addition to nailing his sound it would of been more of a "signature" model,.....that guy could of played a mickey mouse guitar and still ripped your head off,...lol,....good luck with the bareknuckles chime in and let us know how they sound,...sick im sure....
Yeah, I hope they will meet the huge expectations I have on them.
I never tried Suhr pickups but I've been curious for a set of Aldrich pups. A favourite pickup I have is the Tom Anderson HN3 for the bridge. Plenty of mids in the right frequencies while retaining good, tight lows and creamy highs. It's got plenty of power but is still "weak" enough to let the guitars characteristics shine thru. A great pup for sure.
I'll let you know how the BK's work for me once I've had some time with them....
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rieni_otten
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I am glad I found this topic... I bought an Excalibur Custom with Seymour Duncans online, assuming all would be perfect because I read so much good stuff about Vigier guitars... and it is a great guitar but for me the sound is horrible, really disappointing. No bass, no body, very thin, lot of treble. So this discussion gives me hope. I'm gonna do some more playing just to test the neck and Floyd a bit further and if all that is ok, maybe I keep it and swap the electronics, or I return this one and buy a second hand Vigier in the future and then experiment with the electronics.
Blake h. wrote:I am glad I found this topic... I bought an Excalibur Custom with Seymour Duncans online, assuming all would be perfect because I read so much good stuff about Vigier guitars... and it is a great guitar but for me the sound is horrible, really disappointing. No bass, no body, very thin, lot of treble. So this discussion gives me hope. I'm gonna do some more playing just to test the neck and Floyd a bit further and if all that is ok, maybe I keep it and swap the electronics, or I return this one and buy a second hand Vigier in the future and then experiment with the electronics.
what happened with your new Vigier at the end? Kept it? Returned? ... just curious
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rieni_otten
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Blake h. wrote:Blake h. wrote:I am glad I found this topic... I bought an Excalibur Custom with Seymour Duncans online, assuming all would be perfect because I read so much good stuff about Vigier guitars... and it is a great guitar but for me the sound is horrible, really disappointing. No bass, no body, very thin, lot of treble. So this discussion gives me hope. I'm gonna do some more playing just to test the neck and Floyd a bit further and if all that is ok, maybe I keep it and swap the electronics, or I return this one and buy a second hand Vigier in the future and then experiment with the electronics.
what happened with your new Vigier at the end? Kept it? Returned? ... just curious
Well I kept playing it, and lowered the action to see if all the stories are true and yes extremely low action is possible and the guitar hardly detunes, so I realized this is the best guitar I ever owned. I spoke to a befriended luthier about the sound and did some reading about the pickups, and in general the SH-5 pickups aren't known as the warmest sounding pickups, so if I change them and the potmeter, I could achieve the sound I am after, so I decided to keep it. I have the SH-10 and SH-2 in my ESP and I like those sounds so I'm gonna move them to the Vigier as a test. For now, if I squeeze the tone knob to 10% and open the bass a bit more on the amp, the sound is reasonable, it isn't thin, has enough body, not too much treble, but it lacks warmth, but again, that must be due to the pickups. You can compare the SH5 and SH10 on Youtube and you will hear the difference.
There is one more thing... the Vigier arrived with cracked pickguard and it was made in 2013. It was sold as new but I wondered if it was a used item so I contacted the supplier and they said they don't sell used products, and they promised to get a new pickguard from Vigier and send it to me, I am waiting for that now. There are also some traces of usage on the pickup screws so it's like someone has been changing pickups in the past. It all looked a bit strange but on the other hand, the model I was after in this colour I like so much is very hard to get, it's never on stock anyway, so if I would have returned this one it would have taken months to get another one, and apart from the pickguard and screws everything looks mint.
I don't know where you are but there is a used Excalibur for sale in a shop in Paris, quite old, some wear, but cheap, comes with Seymour Duncans and the original DiMarzios.
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marcwormjim
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My Shawn Lane arrived with the mirror pick guard cracked under one of the screws, as well. It worsened until I had to order a replacement. The next Vigier I buy will have direct-mount pickups, a floyd. and be used off eBay or reverb - That way, I won't feel too bad about replacing the pickups, pots, and switch.
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rieni_otten
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The one I was talking about is this one http://www.guitare-village.com/occasion/rock/rock_2993.php
There are also a few offered on http://fr.audiofanzine.com
The Vigier is now the only guitar I touch, I have 9 guitars in total, Fenders, Gibsons, ESP, but the Vigier is my favorite. The quality of Fender and Gibson can't be compared to Vigier, it's trash. The quality of ESP comes a lot closer. For now these guitars sound better to me than the Vigier but that can be fixed.
With the low action I can do things I couldn't do on other guitars, suddenly I feel like a guitar player :-) I hardly ever have to tune it, when I do it's after a lot of extreme bending, probably because the strings are still new. and then the tuning goes fast.
Earlier I mentioned that I want to replace the Seymour Duncan SH-5 by an SH-10, but I meant the SH-14, that one is in my ESP and has a much warmer sound. The SH-14 sounds more like 70s rock, the SH-5 is probably more suitable for hard modern metal, I would compare it to the sound of EMGs (which I don't like either, to me they lack warmth and character).
Blake h. wrote:The one I was talking about is this one http://www.guitare-village.com/occasion/rock/rock_2993.php
There are also a few offered on http://fr.audiofanzine.com
The Vigier is now the only guitar I touch, I have 9 guitars in total, Fenders, Gibsons, ESP, but the Vigier is my favorite. The quality of Fender and Gibson can't be compared to Vigier, it's trash. The quality of ESP comes a lot closer. For now these guitars sound better to me than the Vigier but that can be fixed.
With the low action I can do things I couldn't do on other guitars, suddenly I feel like a guitar player :-) I hardly ever have to tune it, when I do it's after a lot of extreme bending, probably because the strings are still new. and then the tuning goes fast.
Earlier I mentioned that I want to replace the Seymour Duncan SH-5 by an SH-10, but I meant the SH-14, that one is in my ESP and has a much warmer sound. The SH-14 sounds more like 70s rock, the SH-5 is probably more suitable for hard modern metal, I would compare it to the sound of EMGs (which I don't like either, to me they lack warmth and character).
Thanks again for the info !
And good luck with the pickup replacements, watch out for the Vigier custom pickup baseplates (3 screws)!
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